Why long-term tests matter: Tesla edition

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 12/30/2019 at 22:49 • Filed to: None

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NKato > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/30/2019 at 22:57

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 And this is precisely why I will spend any amount of money it takes to keep my CVPI roadworthy 20 years from now.

fintail > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/30/2019 at 23:01

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The lack of a provided loaner/rental/etc is at least as alarming as the failure.

I wonder how crappy Musk can treat the cult before they’d commit mutiny or meander elsewhere - I bet it would take a lot.

shop-teacher > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/30/2019 at 23:05

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I just read that about 10 minutes ago. I'm no Tesla hater, but that shit is completely unacceptable.

shop-teacher > fintail 12/30/2019 at 23:09

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It will take a lot for the cult, but the general population that Tesla is going to need to win over eventually i f the company is ever going to succeed, is far less forgiving. Do you know how many versions of the conversation, “I’ll never buy a ____, because that ____ I owned (insert length of time more than 20 years ago) was such a steaming pile of shit,” I’ve had over the years?

I agree, the lack of replacement transportation is frankly stunning. 

facw > NKato 12/30/2019 at 23:10

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How is that any different from spending money to maintain a Tesla?

slipperysallylikespenguins > NKato 12/30/2019 at 23:12

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It really shouldn’t take that much for a Crown Vic, as long as impacts can be avoided. There will be parts available for it for decades to come.

fintail > shop-teacher 12/30/2019 at 23:18

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Once the techdork demographic market is saturated, I wonder who will buy these. I like in a techie city, and there is still a dearth of charging infrastructure especially in multifamily buildings , and the insane undeserved tax breaks won’t last forever. There will also likely be per mile taxation schemes to compensate for gas tax, hurting appeal as well. I still have some doubts about the longterm viability of this product line.

I suspect the “burn me once” ideal will hold true, too. I know both of my parents reacted that way (dad against GM, mom against Ford, neither of those again graced the driveway), and I suspect younger consumers would follow suit. It’s human nature.

I have no doubt one would get a loaner car if their basic new Mirage shit the bed, for a likely optioned up 3 that probably cost 50K+, inexcusable.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > shop-teacher 12/30/2019 at 23:19

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and on a 57k car. I’ve gotten loaners on cars worth less than half that

His Stigness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/30/2019 at 23:21

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“At least he got a message on his phone his car broke! I don’t know of any ICE that does that!!!”

That’s about as ridiculous of a response as I can come up with an would expect from a beta tester.

Also, Tesla is really breaking new ground. Now you don’t even need to DRIVE your Tesla for it to break! 

shop-teacher > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 12/30/2019 at 23:27

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Both of my vehicles combined weren't as expensive as this car, and I bought them both new. Both got me loaners when service took more than a day while they were under warranty.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 12/30/2019 at 23:38

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Lexus will give you a loaner if they’re replacing the wipers on an ES250

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > His Stigness 12/30/2019 at 23:58

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They want to get in on that sweet sweet ferrari user experience. 

Thisismydisplayname > shop-teacher 12/31/2019 at 00:09

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I’m in the camp of contemplating a Tesla for a replacement to my S8, but stories like this give me pause. I wonder if it’s a model S vs model 3 thing. Same as how supercharging used to be included with the model S, it’s not with the model 3s. And I wouldn’t be buying a new Tesla anyway, used for sure, so no assumption of perks new buyers get. But it’s problematic that when the car goes down, that service is not very communicative.

But then again, I’ve had similar experiences with other dealerships, but I also can go a few miles down the road next time.  Not really an option with Tesla.  Should be interesting to hear how this all shakes out.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > shop-teacher 12/31/2019 at 00:13

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It’s stories like this that makes me hate Tesla

NKato > facw 12/31/2019 at 00:22

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Because your Tesla turns into a glorified 3,000 pound paperweight when its memory drive fails due to the read-write performance. Mark my words, the EVs will be in junkyards faster than conventional cars. 

facw > NKato 12/31/2019 at 00:31

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Any car turns into a paperweight when it breaks badly enough . True you can have expensive battery failures in the Tesla, but you can have expensive engine and transmission failures in your Crown Vic as well. Moreover, the Model S has been around since 2012, and they certainly don’t seem to be dropping like flies. Maybe they will all at some point, I haven’t seen much complaining about diminished battery life (the Nissan Leaf has had huge problems with this, but other electrics and modern hybrids seem to be fine in terms of battery durability at this point).

NKato > facw 12/31/2019 at 00:36

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I have plans to deal with the transmission and engine in due time...

But the Tesla? In truth, it should be easy to repair and maintain due to the electronic nature. The problem is how expensive the components are. 

DipodomysDeserti > shop-teacher 12/31/2019 at 00:37

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I bough my car used, and my dealer gave me brand new loaners for oil changes and windshield repairs!

shop-teacher > fintail 12/31/2019 at 00:39

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Teslas are a pretty common site around here. We don’t have the techdork industries, so these are (presumably) normal people buying them. They are the vehicle of choice f or affluent people who want to look like they’re hip or saving the planet or whatever. If they’re commonly experiencing shit like this though, they’ll drop the Tesla like it’s hot, and pick up a Por sche Taycan, or whatnot.

facw > NKato 12/31/2019 at 00:41

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And that’s great, but not everyone is so mechanically inclined. Most people are going to see a big bill from their mechanic and decide it’s time for a new car.

There are analogs with electrics, though obviously some things are going to be harder or more dangerous (though a lot of other maintenance stuff is easier or non-existent).

shop-teacher > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 12/31/2019 at 00:42

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I want them to succeed. It’s an American company that is in many ways on the cutting edge of important technology ... But they make it really hard to trust them. As a generally risk adverse person, I wouldn't touch a Tesla with a ten foot pole. I hope that's not the case someday, but time will tell.

His Stigness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/31/2019 at 00:48

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I can’t. I just can’t.

Stef Schrader > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/31/2019 at 00:52

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Ooooooooof. 

shop-teacher > DipodomysDeserti 12/31/2019 at 00:57

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Nice!

fintail > shop-teacher 12/31/2019 at 01:05

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In my area, the extra-affluent and techdorks are a heavily overlapping venn diagram, and they’ve embraced Tesla - the office campuses of big tech and telcos are littered with them. Most of them are probably fine cars for the right people , although like with most cars at those price points, these aren’t purely logical purchases. A d efinite choice to look modern and edgy, and then you notice a few dozen others in your building have something similar.

I’m patiently awaiting the established premium brands to release legit competitors, although the elongated egg styling mantra and the spartan apple-style interior might be difficult , not sure if others will (or want to) mimic it.

DipodomysDeserti > facw 12/31/2019 at 01:13

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I think I’d trust long term Ford parts availability over Tesla. Plus the Vic was probably put together a whole lot better.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > NKato 12/31/2019 at 02:24

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Uuuuhhhhh......You really think a crown vic has never refused to start after being parked?

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Thisismydisplayname 12/31/2019 at 07:28

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https://insideevs.com/news/376037/tesla-mcu-emmc-memory-issue/

nd then you have the logging problem

haveacarortwoorthree2 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/31/2019 at 08:55

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I am lazy and thus won’t take the time to figure this out, but did C&D purchase this car or is it a long-term loaner from Tesla? If the latter, I can understand why Tesla didn’t provide a loaner to an automotive magazine with tons of cars available to them. If C&D bought it, this is such unacceptable customer service that Tesla might as well be a subsidiary of GM. 

Thisismydisplayname > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 12/31/2019 at 12:47

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That’s good to know. I remember seeing that issue was out there, but never paid much attention to it. Sounds like it’s a 911 IMS bearing type situation. Go to buy a tesla, “has the MMC been updated/upgraded?” Just like any car though, they have their typical issues that the aftermarket steps in to solve.

Doesn’t give me a warm and fuzzy feeling though about stepping into that type of vehicle yet.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > haveacarortwoorthree2 12/31/2019 at 13:18

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Not 100% sure. I’d hope they’d actually buy all their long-termers (I know Edmunds does), but not sure in this case. But I do remember reading of complaints of dealer experience for other long-termers, which leads me to think the keep this fleet as unknown to makers as possible (to maintain integrity of the test). 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > His Stigness 12/31/2019 at 13:23

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LOL. Tesla apologists are hilarious. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Stef Schrader 12/31/2019 at 13:23

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Turns out, there is such a thing as bad press. 

His Stigness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/31/2019 at 15:50

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I figured you’d enjoy that. 

NKato > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 12/31/2019 at 16:16

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Mine didn’t start once because of a dead battery. So, no.

I just turn out to be really diligent about my car. :v

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/01/2020 at 10:44

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Tesla Model 3 sucker owner here. Sounds totally legit.

Difference is they were able to get attention from Tesla, which is not...easy. The service and support have been awful . The car is fun , when it works.

I want to write the full story of my Model 3 experience for Oppo, but the trick is to make it interesting.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny 01/01/2020 at 15:36

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That sucks...

I know lots of us would like to hear your experience. 

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > shop-teacher 01/02/2020 at 13:37

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Well put. We have two Teslas in the family, a Model S which has been, for the most part, solid, and the Model 3, which...hasn’t.

But Tesla’s after-sale support is *really* hit-or-miss, so much so that I can’t recommend them to a friend.

And, it’s not like there are a bunch of independent shops around you can go get a second opinion from. It’s a real shame.

shop-teacher > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny 01/02/2020 at 16:09

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Thanks. It’s nice to hear from a Tesla owner, who isn’t a rabid fan-boy. I’m glad to hear your S gas been good to you, sorry to hear about the 3 being less so.

Being tied in so tightly to a very hit or miss, and relatively small, repair network is enough in itself to keep me away. I hope things get better for Tesla owners. I have to believe in the long term... The very long term ... That independent electric vehicle repair shops will spring up. There is definitely a future business opportunity there. That won't be happening anytime soon though.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > shop-teacher 01/02/2020 at 21:28

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It’s really tricky to talk about Tesla on social media, with Oppo’s civility being the exception. Elsewhere, the reactions tend to be very polarized.

On the one side, “Ha ha ha you’re an idiot for buying a Tesla, Elon is a fraud, the company’s going down, etc. etc. etc.”

On the other, “You’re making it all up, Teslas are awesome and you’re probably just someone who’s shorted the stock so you want to spread bad news so it will fall.”

Meanwhile, I’m just a guy with a car that’s actually pretty great, on the occasions that it works.

shop-teacher > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny 01/03/2020 at 00:18

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“Meanwhile, I’m just a guy with a car that’s actually pretty great, on the occasions that it works.”

Lol! That very much describes the '04 Pontiac GTO I owned briefly many years ago :)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny 01/07/2020 at 12:25

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I bought $800 in Tesla stock the week Tesla went public. When I looked at it on 12/30, it was worth over $10k. I sold $2k to buy a Crown Victoria to use as a donor car for a swap, but the engine won’t fit. 

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/16/2020 at 12:10

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There is something oddly soothing about Tesla stock money going toward a Crown Vic.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny 01/16/2020 at 12:25

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Is appropriate.